Neanderthal vs. Cro-Magnon

Once upon a time there was a human race on Planet Earth, ruled by women and driven by sex.

A human society with a fully structured social behavior that worshiped Goddess Moon and Goddess Nature.
Everything was shared within communal groups led by the most outstanding female individuals.
A clan that actually cared and provided for their youngest, elderly or ill.

And they must've been quite a valorous bunch, because they were willing to sacrifice themselves for the well-being of the group, as shown by the numerous bone fractures found on fossil remains, the result of intense fighting with awesome predators that trespassed their territory.

That society was the kind of social utopia that under today's conventional set of values, would likely be labeled as the wildest dream of a deranged feminist or a radical communist.

However, it all actually happened more than 100,000 years ago, and it went on that way uninterruptedly for a period lasting at least 50,000 years.

Although Neanderthal fossil evidence can be traced back as far back as hundreds of thousands years ago, it wasn't “only” until about 130,000 years ago, when they did fully evolve into what can be defined as human. At that time they began to spread across the European continent and by 80,000 years ago were occupying the whole area comprising Turkey and places of Western Asia all the way West to the Iberian Peninsula.

Then, about 45,000 years ago, another race of hominids came into the European scene. Out of Africa, the anthropoids currently believed to be our true human ancestors, had started to take positions at the Western Asian part of the Neanderthal range.

They were taller, less hairy and stayed away from promiscuousness, living usually within a family nucleus and occupying a portion of land that was not open for sharing with anyone else. During the next 10,000 to 15,000 years, they kept expanding on northward and westward throughout all of Europe.
By the time the Cro-Magnons had accomplished the outspread in Europe, the Neanderthal people had completely vanished, leaving no fossil trace as to why or how.
They just seem to have disappeared in a very short period of time, never to be seen again in History.
But did they really vanished just like that?

From what we know out of anthropological data, both races coexisted in many areas during long periods of time. Strangely enough, no fossil evidence has been found of any kind of racial wars between the two distinct races.

Scientists nowadays, argue on whether interbreeding ever took place between the two races.
I am no scientist, but to put things into perspective, we need to take into account that all throughout History there's been copious evidence involving descendants of the most superior and civilized Cro-Magnon race, inflicting forced sex upon chickens, goats, horses, snakes and just about anything that moves, from several animal species, including fish or insects, plus more than a few episodes involving members of the Vegetable Kingdom.
It won't be too far off to think then, that there could have been some kind of interbreeding during the more than 10,000 years both races shared habitats. In fact, I am absolutely convinced that members from both races engaged in monumental orgies.

Neanderthals, being as they were, took the concept of community to the limit and surely must have lured at least some of the more reserved Cro-Magnons into their “open-minded” life-style.
Neanderthal society was communal, matriarchal and completely promiscuous, led by women and driven by sex (just as it happens in modern Spanish society and others from parts of Southern Europe, no matter what you've been told to believe).
On the other hand, Cro-Magnon communities followed the opposite set of rules. They were based upon the not very realistic idea of one partner for life, on a defined small piece of territory adjacent to other similar pairs. But since they had such a strong craving for conquering and looting, surely those activities must've lead to some raping as well, which opened another way for gene-crossing.
Or maybe, they got along just fine, made good friends and invited each other over on weekends to BBQ some mammoth hamburgers, how the heck should i know.
In any case, 10,000 years being close neighbors is a lot of time to seriously claim they didn't have sex with each other.

It was precisely that “open-minded” way of life together with their nomadness (again my own personal guess) what ultimately produced the demise of the Neanderthal population.
Some kind of sexually transmitted disease must have spread rapidly throughout the different communities, no-one having the type of medical training necessary to identify that unknown disease and its means of transmission.

And where that disease could have originated from?
Again, in my own uneducated opinion, the fact that the disease might have arrived at the same time that the Cro-Magnon people did, does not speak very well of the latest sex habits
As I said, examples of Cro-Magnons having sex with other species are plentiful, and that could have developed a new disease that was to spread globally killing millions. Just a wild guess that does not affect the original premise.

This exposition of facts may be considered as blasphemy by most anthropologists, but how else could you explain the complete vanishing without trace of a human race that had survived and successfully adapted throughout all kinds of climatic upheavals and fought off all kinds of terrifying predators for nothing less than 250,000 years.? Prove me wrong, please.

But why didn't the disease affect the Cro-Magnon people to the same extent, then?
Well, it surely must have affected them, but no to the same extent.
Being the original carriers they surely must've been able to identify and isolate the illness away from their communities. And thanks to their “one partner for life” way of life, most couples could have stayed away from unhealthy relationships.
After many generations had passed, people would have unconsciously started to gather empiric statistical data on people getting sick and their sexual habits, arriving to the conclusion that the “right” thing to do was to stay home with his/her partner and don't fool around. Does it sound familiar?

But the most intriguing thing is that precisely at the same time when all this pandemic and physiologic fluids exchange was undoubtedly taking place between the two races, there comes along a major technological and spiritual revolution, the first that mankind was to witness, one that was to be known as "The Human Revolution".
Previous to that encounter, neither Neanderthals nor Cro-Magnons could have met the standards required to qualify as “modern” humans.
Excuse again my lack of anthropologist training, but all this just cannot be coincidental.

But why were the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon so different from each other?
That's an easy one to figure out:
Neanderthal evolved originally in bush or jungle conditions, hence his shorter average height (5' 4''), whereas Cro-Magnon evolved on open plains, hence his tallness. (average 5' 10'') and that he was appropriately long-sighted, and right-handed.

Other distinctive physical features of the Neanderthal people included prominent eyebrows and brow ridges, a larger cerebellum, nearsightedness and a higher incidence of left-handedness.
And though they presented similar or even bigger cranial capacity as today's humans, on the average they seemed to posses a lower average IQ, as measured by Cro-Magnonian standards, that is.
Recent findings at Neanderthal excavation sites have brought out what is indisputably a flute, carved out of a bone. Music is undoubtedly one of the most elevated characteristics of human intelligence equal or higher than language, which must have obviously existed, then.
And if there was music, then there was dance. Throw in a few “magic” herbs and there you have all the ingredients needed to hold big social gatherings, i.e., big parties, that surely ended up in uninhibited orgies where women were in full control of the protocol.

Another of the distinct features that differentiated both races was the length of their big and second toe.
All Neanderthal fossil feet and footprints have been found to have the big toe shorter than the second toe. And all Cro-Magnon fossil feet and footprints found have been found to have the big toe longer than the second toe.
All, without exceptions.
Now, go to a public swimming pool and risk being taken for some kind of pervert. But after carefully watching, you'll see my point. It's a paleoanthropologist's nightmare. A collection of toes of all kinds of lengths and types that don't really correspond to the anthropological bodily appearance of the holders. Even within members of the same family, you can observe different toes' lengths and disposition.

This is not a banal issue. Paleoanthropologists argue that modern genes "derive exclusively" from the African ancestors of modern humans, and not from Neanderthals, based on genetic studies practiced on a few Neanderthal fossils.
But other anthropologists, contend that modern humans actually carry at least some genes of Neanderthals mixed in with their own.

It would be simplistic and easier to the mind to think that our Cro-Magnons ancestors were just better fitted for survival, and therefore we were the “chosen one” race, that overtook the ape-like Neanderthals.
Anyone who has visited Europe (specially the Mediterranean) has inevitably come across human specimens high on Neanderthal genes. North and South America have their share also, and the African and Asian continents hold sparse communities of almost pure Neanderthals and hybrids.
Carleton Coon dived into that unfortunate comparison in what he called the "Alpha and Omega" of living humans in his book The Origin of Races. Coon, also memorably remarked that a cleaned-up and soberly dressed Neanderthal would hardly merit a second glance on the New York subway.

When animal and plant breeders cross different species of plants and animals the resulting hybrid offspring has qualities and characteristics possessed by neither parent. This outcome is known as ‘hybrid vigor’.
But such vigor does not come along without some nasty side-effects, because it is also a well-known biological fact that when divergent species of animals are crossed, the offspring frequently show unstable behavior derived from the conflicting sets of instincts inherited from both parents.
And in the case of humans, that interbreeding between Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon must have produced two completely different sets of behavioral patterns, each one having found its own place in different sides of the brain. That would explain many aspects of the so-called “split-brain” theory.
And in that aspect, humans are also unique. No other animal can specialize each of their brain sides to perform different tasks, not at least to the degree we do, no matter how much training is provided.

So we all have a Neanderthal living in us, usually controlling the right side of our brains, but nonetheless, tradition and fashion dictates the Cro-Magnon type as the model to be followed, whether it'd be in fashion, movies or politics. Everyone thrives to have a tall, athletic figure. And almost everyone needs to follow a set of rules to live their lives coherently within modern societies. Or so we've been made to believe.

As it has been said, being tall and big is a very convenient body shape if you happen to live on open plains, but anywhere else it turns you into an oversized clumsy animal. In today's world, the larger you are the more bound you are to meet all kinds of missadaptation problems. Just ask any basketball player about it. And that's not going to get any better in the foreseeable future.

But this is 2006 B.C., and being so new, humans as a whole are still so fascinated by the Cro-Magnonian life-style.
And the way we humans lead ourselves by nowadays is that whenever there's an interest, a market is rapidly developed to provide for it.
And once there is a market, it doesn't matter anymore whether the ideology behind it is outdated or wrong, because the beast is alive on its own and is constantly growing and asking to be fed.
That's the way Cro-Magnonian Capitalist Market works.
And that's why there's a conspiracy to promote even further the Cro-Magnon cause.
And I know they're after me for writing this post. They even hijacked my computer to certify the reports they were getting from their mentalists about a quasi-Neanderthal man discovering The First Truth. But I managed to sneak it in. And if they try to endanger my life now, they'll appear as prime suspects. So, I'm safe for the time being.

I consider myself to be quite Neanderthalish. I've got many of the physical traits, politically speaking I'd choose Left over Right any day of the week plus I have a secret fetish for women in dominant roles, so I must be one of them.
Besides, I understand no other intelligent way of human association than helping each other.
And I am a nomad, whether I like it or not.
And guess what. Neanderthals are more prone to paranoia and other ailments of the soul than Cro-Magnons are.

I also do posses more than my share of Cro-Magnon traits, such as an insane passion for technology or innate programming skills.
And there's nothing I dislike more than some human parasite trying to live off my work in order to improve his/her living standards. I also believe in private property to an extent, and my wife is not up for grabs, sorry.




Furthermore my IQ of 145 is superior to that of most Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons alike. I got these measurements made in Australia, the country largely inhabited by the descendants of a misplaced community of European Cro-Magnon outcasts.
I arrived there in 1985, and my knowledge of the official English language was in need of vastly improvement, to put it kindly.
In spite of that, it didn't prevent me from coming up first by several legs at a test held to recruit possible candidates for a series of government subsidized computer programs. To me the test appeared to be more about common sense than anything else, really, and I went all through it non-stop, ticking away the obvious answers.
The results showed an IQ so high that prompted General Manager to come all the way from Melbourne headquarters to Sydney just to interview me. At least that's what I was told.
When I was first introduced to him, he looked sort of disappointed. He was clearly the Cro-Magnon type and was probably expecting to meet someone akin.
The conversation that followed has to be a classic of my experiences when dealing with all sorts of Cro-Magnon trained managers:
He looked me up and down and quickly went to the point informing me that it was to my best interest to spend approximately the next 3 to 5 years of my life subsidized studying FORTRAN and COBOL.
I thanked him, but pointed out that the real reason for applying was because I wanted to take one of the other courses available, and become a technician (that's where the meat is).
He implied he knew better than my own self about what were my best options.
I replied that if he was talking to me in the first place was because he thought I was smart. And if I was smart enough, then I should be able to decide about my own future.
That was the end of it, he didn't even let me apply for the technicians' course.
From information gathered later from former students of those primitive programming languages, I had made the right choice. One of them assured me it was far more complex than learning Chinese, but far less useful and gratifying. And he was fluent in both languages.

My more developed Neanderthal cerebellum also provides for some kind of unconventional intelligence, that gifts me with the ability, for example, to clearly identify patterns that would pass completely unnoticed by people high on Cro-Magnon genes.
How come, for example, that a whole nation so Cro-Magnonish as Germany, could have let themselves be tricked into an absurd ideology about a superior Arial race and further on into a world war, by someone like Hitler, himself a Neanderthal man posing as Cro-Magnon, who happened to be exactly the opposite image of an Aryan race specimen?.
Let me tell you, that little phony man would have not deceived shit off me, not even for half a second.

And I know that you're thinking of Franco now, the latest Spanish dictator, but that was a completely different thing. That was Cro-Magnonian Might (into which Nazi Germany actively contributed) crushing down by means of a destructive superior force, a popular Neanderthal-inspired freedom social movement.

It's the Neanderthal in me who is writing this post. Because, you see, my Neanderthal side can only express itself meaningfully in English. When it tries to do so in Spanish it makes little or no sense at all.
However, the Cro-Magnon in me loves using Spanish, probably because of its better order and structure (although he's fluent and meaningful in both languages).
I've got empiric proof that shows that the Neanderthal in me has taken refuge at the right side of my brain, which is the wrong side for an english-speaking Neanderthal (or english-speaking Cromagnon for that matter) to dwell in. But that was the only place it could fit, since there was no room left at the left side of my brain, entirely taken by my spanish education and its overwhelming cultural legacy.

I grew up in a country where as recent as half a century ago, left-handed pupils had their “good” hand tied up at their backs in order to force them to write using their “right” hand.
If there's a country where Left and Right collide in every sense, that's Spain. Just take a quick look at its dwindling History.

Spain could be defined as Neanderthal territory governed by strict and outdated Cro-Magnonian traditional ways.

For whatever the reasons, the Neanderthals' last redoubt thus seems to have been in Iberia, South and West of the Ebro. It is relevant here that while in certain other regions, Neanderthals of the 36-33 kyr period appear to have acquired some of the Cro-Magnons' behavioral attributes by acculturation, there is no evidence for this happening beyond the "Ebro line", where abrupt cultural replacement appears to have been the rule.
The last of the Neanderthal that survived and interbred with the Cro-Magnon did pass on their genes and produced hybrids that are today's Iberians. And British ...
Up to recent times, people of Celtic ancestry were thought to have descended from tribes of central Europe. Nothing further from the truth.Professor Sykes, who is soon to publish the first DNA map of the British Isles, said: "About 6,000 years ago Iberians developed ocean-going boats that enabled them to push up the Channel.
Before they arrived, there were some human inhabitants of Britain but only a few thousand in number. These people were later subsumed into a larger Celtic tribe ...
The majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."
http://www.independent.co.uk

If you look at History, you'll see how hybrids from both countries, Spain and Britain, have defeated all other "pure" races and conquered about every corner of the world. And still had time to fiercely fight each other. Hybrid vigor.

There are still traditions in Spain that remind us of those ancient communal ways. The most representative is the custom to offer one's food to the rest of the people around you, sharing it with everybody if accepted. That's quite Neanderthal-like, I would say, and not a custom to be practiced almost anywhere else.

I left my country behind when I was 21, and headed for English-speaking Cro-Magnonian lands. I was utterly fascinated by their pragmatism, the directness and practicality of their language, together with their “non-bullshit” approach to things that really matter in a selfish life. So, for quite a few years, and in order to develop an acceptable set of language abilities, I immersed into every aspect of truly Cro-Magnonian societies, by living, working and breathing their culture for over 7 years, not ever going back to my homeland, neither writing back to friends and family that much, mostly because it did put me off my track and off my head.
I was so determined that I even shun away any contact with most of the spanish speaking travelers I'd occasionally met, and the truth is that I didn't miss it all that much.
At one point I even considered to overwrite the whole of my left side with the newly acquired English mentality. Today I'm so glad that I didn't.

All these traits are clearly Cro-Magnonish, but as I said, I had more than enough of that kind of mentality, with probably more than 75% of my brain occupied by egocentric ideas.
So I had to make the triple effort of learning a new language, accommodate it in a side that clearly was not its natural habitat to be in, and on top of that, make use of it to express my Neandertalish views.
I mostly use Spanish to express my Cro-Magnonian views, and that's plenty, thank you.
Luckily, more pragmatic English language allows for that kind of acrobatics that Spanish does not.
That's why I never succeed in properly translating what I write. None of what I'm writing would make much sense in Spanish. Vice versa sometimes, but not always.

If I am considered to be an odd character in the States, it's even worse in Spain, where I've been asked a worrying number of times whether I come from outer space (and I'm not kidding now).
To help you get the picture, Spain is the kind of place where Stephen Hawking would probably have gotten beaten up for being such a smart-aleck.
To be honest, the country has changed a lot during the past 30 years or so, but the remains of hundred years of Spanish Inquisition plus 40 recent years of imposed ignorance and fear are still deeply rooted in its culture and it certainly shows. I calculate that it will take at least 2-3 generations to get rid of those bad Cro-Magnon habits, if that ever happens.
The current system education of choice (a.k.a. The Box), is not helping either. Spaniards are very fond of indulging in watching TV programs primarily designed to sell worthless products and promote ignorance. A run-down version of professional Cro-Magnonian media.

My Cro-Magnonian side is now telling me not to veer off and conclude at once.
No one can refute the fact that the Cro-Magnon mind-set has been the prime accountable for most of the technical gadgetry some of us enjoy today. And no one will deny (or almost no one) taking proper advantage of that technology to improve the quality of their lives.
And the truth is that it's been real “fun” for a several-thousand-of-years while, with all those bloody wars, which in turn spurred phenomenal advances in weaponry, communications or medicine.
But now the time for change is overdue. This egocentric Cro-Magnon mentality has pushed the natural resources of our planet beyond their limits and is driving us fast-forward towards our own self destruction.
Even if we're just meaning to be selfish, we still are in great need of a major mentality shift.
We need to get back to our Neanderthal roots and start caring for each other again, at least until we have properly digested all the technical advances falling and looming upon us.
And we must do this as fast as possible, because maybe it's already too late.


More Info:

Hybrid-origin
Human evolution
The Way We Are
Cities of Dreams – Stan Gooch
The Dream Culture of the Neanderthals
Cro-Magnon Man and the Bible
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology

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49 comments:

Anonymous said...

Imaginative, but not sustainable by existing evidence. Where do you get your claims about Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon cultures??

laparanoia said...

Just follow the links at the bottom and all throughout the post.
Also, if you click on the pictures, they'll all take you to relevant sites.

Cristina Melo said...

History is maybe a too rigorous science: I red that specialists in Neanderthals cannot even be sure if they wore clothes, even if we cannot be sure; they represent them with clothes, but to infere their social structures etc etc, seems not rigorous at all...
...and we´d better not to take too much moral lessons from history, however, I guess we must believe in humanity, it seems better not to be believe too much however ...??????!!!!!!!

Cristina Melo said...

I almost forgot to remind that to read this post was something special ... even profissionals in history and other humanities made mistakes in youth, such as "racial theories": almost because it was kind of fashion at the time, and some regret, some others will never be sensitive or intelligent enough to stop making "errors" !...
I myself had a strange way of writing that was a risk to be accepted , I guess ??!!!!!!!!!

Cristina Melo said...

there are beautiful and useful poems about history, here´s one of the greatest I think:




Uns, com os olhos postos no passado,
vêem o que não vêem:outros, fitos
Os mesmos olhos no futuro, vêem
O que não pode ver-se.

Por que tão longe ir pôr o que está perto
A segurança nossa ? Este é o dia,
Esta é a hora, este é o momento, isto
é quem somos, e é tudo.

Perene fluia a interminável hora
Que nos confessa nulos. No mesmo hausto
Em que vivemos, morreremos. Colhe
o dia, porque és ele.

( Ricardo Reis )


translatition:

Some look at the past and they see what cannot be seen, fixed the same eyes look at the future and they see what cannot be seen We only have the present in fact as real, but it is true that history, pasr present and futur is in man´s mind, and I take my lessons from history too, sense I am not blind, but I take them just for myself as meaningless I might be for others.
Even "anthropologists" have moral weakenesses...

Finally, I am sorry for my long commentaries...

Cristina Melo said...

Here´s my advice for some lecture:

PRE HISTORIA DA SOCIEDADE EUROPEIA, A · V Gordon Childe ,


-because he has sense of humor and imagination even being a profissiol in History.

Cristina Melo said...

english original title:


-" The Prehistory of European Society", V. Gordon Childe

Cristina Melo said...

-

*-"profissinal"

Anonymous said...

I am sorry, I didn´t finish yet with poems:

another poem about history:



Do tempo, do Homem e da História,


Lisboa, Separata de STVDIA Revista semestral- n.º 1- Janeiro, 1958, p. 7.


«Há no Tempo três tempos: o passado, o presente e o futuro. O presente é o necessário ponto de referência, sempre a fugir, sempre irreal, sempre a solicitar a atenção humana. é a história e, ao mesmo tempo, não-história, porque o homem que a vive não a pode, em consciência, relatar ou escrever. O futuro, tempo não vivido, não pertence, de facto, ao homem, mas a Deus, senhor da Eternidade. Mas, embora lhe escape, para ele o homem tende, braços abertos, na ânsia de o dominar, de lhe chamar «seu», de o tornar presente. É neste tantâlico esforço que se desenrola toda a vida do homem. O passado, por seu lado, tende a afastar-se cada vez mais, a perder-se, a afundar-se. Está preso ao presente pelo interesse que este nele descobre e valoriza. Se o presente não se enlaça ao passado, este acaba por morrer, por desaparecer, por mergulhar no desconhecido, no incógnito, isto é, no nada.»
...............

«There are in time three times: the past, the present and the future. The present is the necessary reference point, always escaping, always unreal, always demanding for human attention. It is history and, at the same time, non-history, because man that lives it cannot consciously relate or write . The future, time not yet vivid, doesn´t belong, in fact, to man, but to God, lord of Eternity. Nevertheless it escapes him, for him man tends with open wide arms, ansious to dominate him, to call him "his own", from making it present. And, it is in this tantalic effort that all life of man goes on. The past, by the other hand, tends to take each time far more distance, to get lost, to get diven- endagered-. It has relation to the present only by the interest that man in it discovers and worth he atributtes it . If the present doesn´t communicate with past, past will die and disapear, will became extinct, and will became an incognita, or will dive forever in vacuum- in Nothing.»

BoilingMidnight said...

Posting outdated “science” (recent analysis show Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA proves no link to humans), making gross statements about inter-species interaction over millennia without the benefit of a SINGLE COMPLETE SKELETON, and inferring social order via flower-power dreams about a fanciful fem-dom culture is junk science at its best.

The sentence beginning with “I am no scientist” should have ended then and there, for everything after was unintended farce. Actually this train-wreck-of-a blog should’ve ceased when your Freudian slip accurately pronounced your ideas to be “the wildest and most radical dream of a deranged feminist or communist.”

I had thought only left-wing anti-West politics were driven by self-loathing liberals but now I see anthropology suffers as well. “Pity the noble savage, raped like a farm animal by our disease-ridden patriarchal ancestors!” LOL

Anyway, thanks for the laugh!

laparanoia said...

The Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and 454 Life Sciences announced that they would be sequencing the Neandertal genome over the next two years.
At three billion base pairs, the Neandertal genome is roughly the size of the human genome and likely shares many identical genes. It is thought that a comparison of the Neandertal genome and human genome will expand understanding of Neanderthals as well as the evolution of humans and human brains.

DNA researcher Svante Pääbo has tested more than 70 Neandertal specimens and found only one that had enough DNA to sample.
Preliminary DNA sequencing from a 38,000 year old bone fragment of a femur bone found at a Croatian Vindija Cave in 1980 shows that Neanderthalis and Homo sapiens share about 99.5% of their DNA.

It is believed that the two species shared a common ancestor about 500,000 years ago. Nature has calculated the species diverged about 516,000 years ago, whereas fossil records show a time of about 400,000 years ago.

From DNA records, scientists hope to falsify or confirm the theory that there was interbreeding between the species.

Dub said...

I enjoyed the read bruv... nice one. Dont be worried about coming across sarcastic or with an attitude... I like the style with which you wrote. Your inner conflict is the perfect way to illustrate many of your points... besides many things should be taken with a sense of humour.. especially subject matter like this, which can easily be taken out of context, misinterpreted, and can risk upsetting all those sensitive Neanderthal terrorists out there...... lol.

Butterfly said...

I was reading and seriously thinking ... Than reading and leaughing as mad ... But at the end what I can say is I enjoyed, but I don't necessarly agree.
I guess the author has a bit of a paranoid indeed, trying to devide the Europeans especially, and putting them in frames of one or another spicies. It is good to speculate, but I think here it is more about his personal confusion than anything else. If you want to be a Cromagnon so be it! Where are the Africans, the areas who have not been contaminated by the Neanderthals ... And who says that the Cromagnons were only selfish ancesstor and why don't you take in to consideration the fact that maybe the Cromagnons derived from some Neanderthal before ... weren't they have something from that Era in their genes! ... Lack of sientific thinking and more personal problem I think ...

Piero Tarraco said...

. . . it's too bad that your advanced Neanderthal cerebellum with its 145 IQ failed to run spell check on this bizarre, unverifiable, ranting screed of an article. Don't take the comment personal (oh, all right, go ahead and take it personal, what do I care?), but some evidence along with a tap on the spell check button would have been nice.

laparanoia said...

butterfly,

Click on the links at the bottom at the bottom of the Post and they will lead you to scientific sites.
Also, if you click on the pictures, all throughout the post, they'll all take you to relevant sites.

For your Info, the majority of Anthropologists say that "the Cromagnons were our only selfish ancestor".
And they all have been proved wrong. Not by me, but by scientific evidence such as the one I linked to.

The problem is that the Truth is not politically correct an scares the Hell out of people to think that we are NOT the chosen race, but rather the result of interbreeding between 2 species of advanced monkeys. But it is the Truth nonetheless.

All this political and religious objections are just pure crap.
Look at it this way: If there's a God and he/she/it has provided us with a brain, wouldn't it be the worst of sins not to use it and to try to deny the evidence?

laparanoia said...

Piero,

I did run a spell check.
Could you be more specific as to what mistakes you have found that my spell-checker hasn't?

And again:
Click on the links at the bottom at the bottom of the Post and on the pictures, all throughout the post and they will lead you to scientific sites full of scientific evidence.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Anthropology, Hitler, Fem-Dom, Franco, wild group orgies, communism, capitalism, the right side of your brain, inter-species rape, the apocolypse, bestiality... oh, lets not forget the left side of your brain.

One born every minute...

Anonymous said...

did i mention rampant narcissism?

I guess that's just the Cro-Magnon, left brained, capitalist who won't share his wife in you huh?

laparanoia said...

"Hitler, Fem-Dom, Franco, wild group orgies, communism, capitalism, the right side of your brain, inter-species rape, the apocolypse, bestiality"

You are proving my point.
You are obviously left-brain based and fail to see any other points in the post.

Unleash the Neanderthal within yourself and you'll feel better, more human ...

kalopsychos said...

I cannot remember when I last read such utter mindless drivel.
Everyone associated with these postings seems to be moronic

There is very scant evidence for any of the claims made by either 'pros' or 'cons'.

Until the Genome investigations are completed AND the results verified by other competent persons, the whole debate is pointless.

linking palaeanthropology, palaentology and religious prejudice and including half baked 'new age' ideas serves only to stoke the fires of racial intolerance.

The search for truth and knowledge as always being the the last thing on on the minds of those posting here.
Kalopsychos.

Luger Himmlisch said...

Es curioso pero muchos de los puntos que mencionas ya me habian pasado por la cabeza, incluso lo que dices de que hay cosas que con un idioma se dicen mejor que con otro...me gusta tu estilo y saludos desde mexico...

Shefa said...

An interesting if somewhat over-generalised piece, with rather too many 'grand' theories for my liking! However, I've considered for a while the possibility that Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon populations must have mixed. I remember in the 90's when I was studying my degree in archaeology that there was a little ripple of exitement, when that so-called 'hybrid' skeleton of a child had been found. As I understand in genetics, not all traits survive on mitochondrial DNA, and this could account for there bieng little or no trace of Neanderthal genes in modern humans, we also have to bear in mind the samples of DNA used for this analysis, are from a tiny fraction of the poulation. I do think that one day they will be able to prove the link between these two communities. Indeed, perhaps the one survival of a Neanderthal trait could be the Rhesus negative blood type (which I have, along with the large second toe!)

But, it seems to me a little too fanciful to make grand claims about these two societies and how they functioned. Although, to be fair your theory made me smile and sort of makes sense - but that doesn't mean it's true:-) Any Anthropologist will tell you, human societies are highly complex and sexual mores governed much more by social engines than biological ones.

All that said, some ideas worthy of discussion and thought:-)

Anonymous said...

Well the read was interesting, hard to believe but interesting. As for your references you used Wikipedia mistake number one, its not accepted as a reference by any college that I know of. You also rant a little too much about the left, right, and social tendencies of others. Talking about how Hitler was a Neanderthal and such, it just seems like garbage. A red flag that stood out to me was posting your IQ score 145, seriously. People that are secure in their views do not feel the need to parade their IQ or attributes around. If they did it sure would not be an random IQ that cannot be proven or prove that you know what your talking about. Lastly if they did cross-breed (doesn't matter either way) then the distinct traits would have died out by now. You don't get stubbornness from Cro-Magnons and kindness from Neanderthals that is ridiculous. You get that from your upbringing and your culture. Why is that south American kids tend to stay close to home and north Americans tend to go away to a new city or college(not all are this way but the majority are). Is it because the North Americans are of Cro-Magnon culture and south Americans are of Neanderthal culture? NO, its economics! North Americans are raised more independently because we have more opportunities to go out on our own and be successful, while South Americans do not and tend to live with their parents (again not all cases). Last point then I end this rant. You talked about being open-minded, but are you being open-minded when you only see it from your point of view and accept no one’s criticism and shove them off as being a rightist Cro-Magnon.

laparanoia said...

The Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and 454 Life Sciences are sequencing the Neandertal genome.
At three billion base pairs, the Neandertal genome is roughly the size of the human genome and likely shares many identical genes. It is thought that a comparison of the Neandertal genome and human genome will expand understanding of Neanderthals as well as the evolution of humans and human brains.

DNA researcher Svante Pääbo tested more than 70 Neandertal specimens and found only one that had enough DNA to sample. Preliminary DNA sequencing from a 38,000-year-old bone fragment from a femur found in 1980 at Vindija Cave in Croatia shows that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens share about 99.5% of their DNA. It is believed that the two species shared a common ancestor about 500,000 years ago. Nature has calculated the species diverged about 516,000 years ago, whereas fossil records show a time of about 400,000 years ago. From DNA records, scientists hope to confirm or deny the theory that there was interbreeding between the species.

As a reference, I condisered it to be a quite reliable one.

I am not bragging about my IQ, if I had 3 arms, I would tell as well.
And I also believe that the biggest percentage of our intelligence is developed by using your brain. Not many people are inclined to do that.

All I am trying to explain is that there is a different point of view and that perhaps is the one that we should adopt nowadays to avoid the inminent disaster looming upon us.
But, never mind, because I think it's too late anyway.

Anonymous said...

Brilliant and funny. But I'm not a scientist either.

To me, a humorous essay on science and anthropology. A lot of "lay science" in the US has similar traits. Hard to fathom all the critics of some extrapolations substituting for proof. Imagination and extrapolation are similar, but not alike.

Funny how a commenter called it anti-West, anti-Left, anti-Capitalist. How is that read into it? Cro-Magnon is everything about advancement. This confirms some of the arguments about how "communism cannot work" and why it's "against human nature". For Neanderthals, it could work. For Cro-Magnons, so obviously repulsive. Mixed traits mess up everything. I believe we DO need to learn cooperation AND competition, and not only cooperation purely defined by constructing a "winning team". Then again, I come from a line of traditional commie Jews on the maternal side, and capitalist Jews on pop's side.

Laniya said...

Is everything on this blog proven fact or just ideological theory? I am doing a school report on neanderthals vs. cro-magnons. it would really screw me up if the facts were to become fictional.

Anonymous said...

Cro-magnons and Neanderthals could not interbreed...

http://io9.com/5026043/dna-tests-reveal-who-was-having-sex-with-neanderthals-40000-years-ago

laparanoia said...

Anonymous said...
"Cro-magnons and Neanderthals could not interbreed..."

And then provides a link to a shady website that posts what is simply about the opinion of a "group of Italian researchers", who apparently want to remain anonymous as well.

Not serious Mr. Anonymous, please don't waste our time.

Here:
http://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/

Mickelodian said...

You have got to be joking me... my friend you either have an elevated IQ and have for whatever reason decided NOT to use any of it, al all... or you are as dumb as a chicken sandwich... and are in fact using ALL of your intellect.

Now… to put you straight on a few matters. Cro-Magnon culture and Neanderthal culture are unknown for the most part. You looked through the keyhole of someone’s house and seen a chair and assumed everyone in the house was chair mad and had sex with chairs! You have no proof or even the slightest evidence (except for the wacky stuff in your head) that this was ever the case.

Next – Hitler was a Neanderthal! Where in the blue j’sus did you come up with that bull! There also seems to be a lot of stuff pulled not from any form of reality or evidence or in many cases even a possibility of reality but purely from an idea you had which just mushroomed into a novel!

I’m assuming this story then is fiction since there is no evidence, scientific basis, research or even a willingness to do the research into what you have written here.

Your paranoia knows no bounds and I’d assume that since you live in a modern secular developed society that you have already sought help in this aspect of your life. Can I suggest you do what the doctors say and keep taking the tablets or the bad dreams will come back!

Next you have unfortunately written a piece which revolves around ‘you personally’ it has more to do with you…than any attempt to look at the evidence.

The word ‘me’ for example appears a total of 54 times! And the word ‘I’ appears 38 times. This tells me that you have centred this piece not on Neanderthals or Cro-Magnons but in fact on yourself. The Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon society is what you are using to justify the way you feel about your life. But there is no research or proof, or evidence of this at all other than what Wikipedia has given you…and you hand picked all of that!

If you haven’t sought help from a psychological perspective and you are having fears that others are ‘out to get you’ then I’d suggest that a quick trip to a therapist would at least serve to surface these issues.

Next you are popping up all over the web telling people to read your diatribe, which at one point even goes into how ‘they’ are onto you… my god! In order for people to want to do you harm…they have to be at least interested in what you are saying or have a fear of it in some way… in this case… nobody gives a rats ass… and I’ve spent way too long telling you about your issues.

The word ME appeared only twice in this response. once just there…and again when I pointed out how many times YOU used it. The word ‘I’ appeared twice. Once when I suggested you get help and again just here.

Pliestocene Dreams said...

I've read this entire article and I've read all the "supporting information" in the links. It's all hypothesis based on flights of fancy and leaps of the imagination.

The Nazi's tried to rewrite history to prove the superiority of their "Aryan" race.

More recently, groups of fringe feminists are trying to rewrite evolutionary history to convince others of the validity of female authority.

laparanoia said...

Mickelodian,
In case you haven't noticed, this is a personal blog where I describe my own personal experiences, those of a human high on Neanderthal genes and with a sense of humour, which I'm starting to think is an exclusive Neanderthal characteristic.
Anyway, throughout the post I have also offered many indisputable facts, such as Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon cohabitating in Europe for more than 10.000 years.
Do you know that there are paleo-anthropologists who say that they didn't mate?
Talk about "trying to rewrite evolutionary history"

I find very amusing and quite revealing that people who get mad about what is written in this post don't try to dispute the facts, but instead try to attack me personally.
What is it exactly that makes you feel so insecure? The fact that there has been more than one human race?
Well, get over it.

Mickelodian said...

No not at all... I'm perfectly happy and didn't realise you even existed until I read your diatribe...

You have offered facts alright...and then personalized these facts and interwoven them into your own little story... I'm startled you do not realize this...

You are right... this is a story...your story, but certainly not not reality...

Now... I can't begin to start knocking this story... it is pickeled with supposition and inaccuracy... you seem to think you personally were running about with neanderthanls in the neolithic yourself...

You admit that it is a personal story, so I'm assuming it is NOT believed by you to be fact. If it is... then I'm sure you'll be away to the nearest university lab to have your base pairs sequenced so that you can offer such proof!

Of course you obviously don't expect people to believe this... If you do... then as I said... seek professional help.

Mickelodian said...

You are NOT a Neanderthal by the way! If you were... then your mother and father, sisters and brothers along with whole sections of your family would also be....


You are just HOPING you are for whatever strange reason?

Now... if you read my original response I recognised this was a personal story... and indeed also recognised that it was all in your head.

Now as I said then, and again... and further now... your posting leaves me to suspect you need therapy... In fact I'd suspect you have already had psychological help and have now refused any more.

What else would you expect... have you read it? Its all supposition based on what you WISH to be true.

laparanoia said...

Yes, I am Neanderthal.
And Cro-Magnon.
In my blood you can also find traces from Dinaric, Visigoth, Roman, Berber, Arab, Jewish and from the casual Nordic tourist specimen who had an affair when holidaying in Spain.

Anonymous said...

imaginative, but not much more.

have you ever considered so much as a reference to back up your random utopian ideas?

early people were matriarchal? 'indisputably a flute' (there is considerable dispute about this - and rightly so - by people who dedicate their lives to studying archaeology - because without proof you're just guessing). and we call them primitive ...

only evidence I have seen suggests that life is HARD and unfair and always has been, the law of the jungle

Anonymous said...

reference/link every claim you make, else nobody can substantiate what you're saying

tim said...

haha! you're a neanderthal? I think you're selling yourself short - statements like that suggest your brain might be far more primitive than that even.

what else are you? part elf? part fairy?

neanderthals are sadly extinct, you complete fool. they've been extinct thousands upon thousands of years. and no amount of romanticising about a time and people we can know very little about is going to change that. they're known to be extinct because bone-records of them suddenly stops and no more are seen, so no direct link to modern man can be made

get a job, and get a job in pre-history/archaeology if anyone employed in such a field would even let you in, and stop talking rubbish

not being rigorous about facts is what makes people conclude wrong and incorrect things - e.g. world is flat, diseases caused by super-natural demons, etc.

Anonymous said...

Interesting read but I believe DNA testing on Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon have ruled out that any issue of crossbreeding between Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon ever produced a viable breeding adult. The jury is out on whether children were born and from some fossil evidence there may have been, but no evidence they lived to adulthood.

Also, I am of the opinion that females of hominids readily accepted repeated intercourse from multiple males, perhaps to ensure impregnation or perhaps to keep the peace and that is perhaps why males reach ejaculation before females reach climax.

Al

casual arrogance said...

Por favor chavos, laparanoia did disclaim that he wasn't an anthropologist or an expert as such. It's pretty clear these are theories and opinions to which he's entitled, and he links them up voluntarily.

I personally - currently - believe that cro-magnons and neanderthals did hump. They may even have produced offspring, like that little mestiza found in Portugal. That neanderthal DNA cannot be found in today's gene pool might be due to the possibility that these mestizos suffered problems that are common to hybrids and mutants, like infertility, limited life span, deformities. And therefore were reproductive dead-ends.

I too am no expert, so don't ask me for specific links or references. I just watch a lot of Discovery, BBC Horizon, and I check sciencedaily.com

laparanoia said...

The problems that you are mentioning, infertility, limited life span, deformities, and others such as:
* Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
* Increased genetic disorders
* Fluctuating facial asymmetry
* Lower birth rate
* Higher infant mortality
* Slower growth rate
* Smaller adult size
* Loss of immune system function
are common to inbreeding rather than to mestizos.

That's the whole point, Crossbreeding Vs Interbreeding.

A racist individual for example, is usually the result of inbreeding, that's why they are so dumb.

New GJ said...

Hi laparanoia, i have been thinking a lot on these lines of cro magnon , neanderthal and in between, just that i just happenned to visit this page.

I am from a very different place than yours - I am from India.

If same people are thinking on these lines even at this distance there is something to it and my beliefs are confirmed.

With whatever i analyzed about myself, my looks are more towards cro-magnonish but i agree with your split brain thoughts - feel that it at times there is confusion whether to be materialist or community oriented.

Thanks for the thoughts.

And yes - diseases and genetic malfunction is a common thing in in-breeders. Royal society's haemophiliacs are just an example. Polynesians knew this and they followed a different approach on cross breeding altogether.

My knowledge is also more driven out of discovery and books so excuse my intrusions if any.

Rafael Martinez-Minuesa said...

454 Life Sciences and the Max Planck Institute have finally succeeded in sequencing the Neandertal genome. And, you know what? laparanoia was right, The sequence shows that Neandertals and modern humans interbred, and that their DNA persists in us in a percentage between 1% and 4% Neanderthal.
Genetically proven without room for mistake.

The evidence that Neanderthals contributed DNA to modern humans came as a shock to the investigators. “First I thought it was some kind of statistical fluke,” remarked Svante Pääbo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. “We as a consortium came into this with a very, very strong bias against gene flow,” added team member David Reich of Harvard University. But when the researchers conducted additional analysis, the results all pointed to the same conclusion.

laparanoia said...

I knew I was right all the time and that the vast majority of the scientific community was wrong.

If they only had an open mind they would've arrived to the same unavoidable conclusion.
But what can you expect from scientists that “as a consortium came into this with a very, very strong bias against gene flow” ?

HaShem Rules said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Dammann said...

it is possible, but not proven that the neanderthals were o negative

http://www.rhesusnegative.net/rhnegativeforum/index.php?topic=7.0

Donegal said...

How well did the female directed culture fair out? It's not sexism, just reality. Testosterone is the hormone of both physical and intellectual excellence, innovation and the perpetuation and leadership of society. Estrogen is a comfort, southing and caring hormone. I can't help that men like myself have led our species to excellence and the exceptionalsim we now exploit as a culture. Moving towards an increasingly utopian society. From the dawn of time Man came, moving down through the centuries and guiding humanity to the apex species on Earth. You're welcome, women everywhere.

laparanoia said...

How well did the Neanderthal culture fare out?

Well, it lasted for a period of over 50,000 years, under the most terrible life-threatening conditions imaginable.

Anonymous said...

Have you ever seen Mortons toe, it afflict 10% of people. http://www.footcare4u.com/mortons-toe-what-is-it-what-causes-it-how-to-treat-it/

laparanoia said...

It should be called Neanderthal's toe instead, and it's not an "abnormality".

In fact, many high-performance athletes in all kinds of disciplines "suffer" from it, and nonetheless manage to achieve top scores.